spreading the word

[joshua]

i debated with myself whether or not i should really write about this at this forum, and decided that now was a good time. a while back i had a discussion with some of the people at another forum i visit. the topic was whether or not prostitution should be legalized. to my surprise a lot of people voted "yes" at first so i took it upon myself to represent the other side.

read the whole thing here.

i felt one of the important points to be made had to deal with human trafficking, and looking back on it now, i didn't do very well. i'm not sure if i helped or hindered. i thought that tolerating prostitution would have made it difficult for abusers and ring leaders to be justly persecuted with longer sentences. it turns out that i wasn't able to convince too many people.

but i can't say that i didn't learn a lot from my debaters. it turns out that prostitution is a public order crime and escort services are legal in two states: nevada and rhode island. i thought prostitution was a sex crime!

i guess it's just difficult for me to talk about this outside our group where not everyone agrees.

[Ravyn Crescent]

Prostitution is a lot different from escort services. Many escort services are NOT sex related. There are a lot of 'adult' businesses out there that seem like prostitution or that many believe should be illegal, but aren't. Many businesses have extremely 'risky'. There are 'dungeons' where they do everything except the filly act of sex and because they don't go that inch further, they're legal.

Prostitution is dangerous to both the "John" (or, occasionally, the "Jane") and the 'working' girl or boy. You cannot tell if the person has aids, is abusive, has an STD, they could have any form of illness. There is also the risk of pregnancy. You can use condoms and birth control in every form and there's still a chance.

Beyond that, traffickers use escort services far, far less, seeing as how it is legal and since it is, there have to be taxes and you cannot regulate the customers as well. Some people are good, decent people who are just... lonely. And if their new 'friend' gives away that this lifestyle isn't their choice, there are greater chances the police will be informed.

If prostitution was legal... well the thing is, it virtually is but it depends on how it's done. Prostitution as how slaver handlers use it, is 100% illegal because it's... well, incredibly wrong. But also, regular prostitution between 2 consenting adults also is not legal since it cannot easily be taxed and it's virtually impossible to be sure either party is safe.

If it were made legal, though, you are correct in that traffickers would have an easier time. They have to hide 2 things
1) The act
2) The fact

The act of prostitution being illegal forces them to try and make sure they keep it hidden.

The fact that these girls and boys that are being forced into this are being forced also needs to be a secret in order for the slave owners to keep in business.

Legalizing prostitution as a whole will make it harder for slave owners of sex slaves, yes. Anyone who is arguing to make it legal is either trying to get into it to make money or someone who wants to be able to hire one without having to worry... and they obviously are not welcome/cannot afford one of the legal escort services.

If someone really wants sex bad enough they can get it. Prostitutes are usually cheaper, is all, but not always. Some monsters like the fact that it's forced, they like the fact that these girls and boys don't really want to be doing this. Others love the thought that it is a crime and they could be caught.

But fact is fact. Depending on the form, it is legal, and what isn't legal is so because it is wrong or not safe.

[joshua]

if prostitution is so much different from escorts then a lot of state law has the wrong approach from a civil liberties standpoint. we're essentially discussing brothels, at least, that is all that i am aware of.

still i wish i could have put it as eloquently as you did. very nice miss ravyn!

Jun 28, 2008 16:17:45 GMT -5 Ravyn Crescent said:

If it were made legal, though, you are correct in that traffickers would have an easier time. They have to hide 2 things
1) The act
2) The fact

The act of prostitution being illegal forces them to try and make sure they keep it hidden.

i tried to explain this and there wasn't a good reply until another gentleman made the point that the abuse argument didn't really fly because the abuser is relying on the gamble that the abused won't inform the police. i never bothered to counter that myself (i didn't think of a reason why that wouldn't be so) but it pissed me off real good.

i don't know if i'll ever be good at talking about this stuff, but i suppose it's a matter of trying again and again.

[Ravyn Crescent]

Most people will argue it. The majority seem to prefer not thinking about slavery and focus only on the "loss of freedom” they feel making prostitution illegal qualifies as.

They don't seem to understand the fact that the abusers rarely worry about the abused telling the police. My father had be convinced that the police were the bad guys, or that they wouldn't care at all. I had constant worry that these cops I saw from time to time were actually working for my father to see if I would disobey him by telling them what was going on.

Most slaves have the same concerns. They're hurt, they've been raped (most of them) others won't know the language of that country... and many slavers will often trick their victims by testing their loyalty. If you tell a fake cop you need help, your life goes from a living hell and turns into one where you can only hope to get back to hell from there.

I told a friend of my fathers, once, because they honestly seemed like a good person... they got me to trust them and I suffered greatly for it.

When you're a slave, you don't have anyone to trust. You don't have any assurance that the man with the badge will give a damn or that he even can help you. Also, the girls that end up on the street have been “tamed”. Whoever things they're taken one day and on the street the next is wrong. If they are to be sex slaves, they have been raped within (on average) three hours of their abduction. They will be gang raped, abused, beaten and used for hours upon hours. I've heard a story where a girl was raped constantly; kept awake for nearly a full week because her captors never let up on her.

Think of Elizabeth Smart and the numerous other victims abducted by monsters. They will be left alone and even walk around without telling a soul because they're so brain washed into thinking no one can or will help them.

By the time they're put out on the street, they know the rules. Often times, they'll be “seniors” in this, having been captives for many years. Some will actually fear what will happen if the police find out because they came to that country for a reason. In America, many slave owners trick their victims by telling them “I'll get you away from your abusive father/mother/uncle/husband, etc.” or “I know you're a thief there, but I'll take you someplace where you can be free and safe and fed.” Some of these slaves are criminals in their country, but not many. Others come from poverty and their families are getting payment in exchange for their labor. Some are from very wealthy families and fear the scandal their situation will cause.

The majority are runaways.

Slave owners use family and friends as collateral. “You will serve me or I'll rape and murder your baby sister” “I'll slaughter your father” “I will take your little brother instead, if you like.”

Would you tell the police you need help if you know for a fact your entire family might die because you told? I was told not to tell because “Aren't you strong enough to handle this, or do you prefer to have your mother suffer?”

The sad part is, most people don't give a damn about the slaves in this world.